Curse

Rekiara Malevu · Feb 22, 2008, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

a bad player is someone who performs poorly in a given context with a given build.

a good player is someone who performs well in a given context with a given build.

good and bad is not always so clear cut. a player can be amazing in one context with one build, but absolutely terrible in another context with another build. labelling someone as bad because he can't play a shock axe in RA, but is amazing playing a monk in GvG, is just poor judgment.

This is pretty much what I was going to say.

A bad player is someone who performs poorly in their given role. Most bad players are either:
-New to the game and will become good players given some time to learn
-New to the profession / role and will become good players given some time to learn
-Unsuited to the profession / role, and will not become good players. This is fine, as long as the player recognizes it.
-Anyone who is unable / unwilling to learn the mechanics of their profession / role

Yes, new players are bad (generally). There's nothing wrong with that though. It takes some time and experience to become good with the system, time and practice that most of us had to put in to become good players. That's why most of the 'bad player' complaints come from PvP (RA/AB) - half the people there are playing professions and roles they've never touched before.

On a final note, good person does not necessarily mean good player, nor does bad person mean bad player. I have many friends who, while they are amazing people, are absolutely terrible at the game - and I've met stellar players who I couldn't bear to be around for more than 15 minutes.

JONO51 · Feb 22, 2008, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Bad player imo is someone who isnt open minded and very arrogant when it comes to their build, equip etc. The amount of arguments I have been in with mending/heal breeze wammo's......

Kusandaa · Feb 22, 2008, 05:59 PM // 17:59

To me, a bad player means you won't listen to instructions, won't learn from mistakes and doesn't work well in a team (both with the players and against the foes).

I was monking for a forge run a few days back, and I had 2 guildies with me. We had 2 rangers (barrager, BHA), 2 monks (HBoon, I was WoH), a warrior, SS necro, 2 nukers (SH and SF). The ranger kept aggroing and pulling, which soon drove my guildies nuts because he'd often go before everyone and would pull back to us... sometimes over-aggroing in the process. The warrior, in lead, pings a mob, goes to get it - without warning, barrager goes to get another mob with abyssals. Rastigan got triggered but we managed to clear before something happened. We tell him to slow down, but nope.

So he continues. He keeps aggroing faster than the group would move, and before doing Army of Darkness, we've had about enough. One ele's running double sup and no vigor (I think everyone went "WTF..."), thus aggro switches to the leeroying ranger from the poor ele, which gets d/p'ed fairly fast.

The Hboon monk leaves RIGHT after Army, without saying anything, given the ranger had aggroed everything in the damned area (including Menzies, the mob around him and the second Dragon Lich with its small mob). But we continue, thinking the ranger was finally gonna stop.

We move to forge only to notice the barrager's out of everyone's range. He's looting. Exhausted, I start telling him to come back to us, that he's part of the team therefore should kill with us, and I get insulted back. "stop being a jew" "let me loot, i make my money" "**** U JEW I LOOT IF I WANT". I just about lost it there...

Barrager comes back nearly half into the forge (about time). He kills stuff with us, aggroing too fast still, but I was able to keep the team alive as the only monk. Once we're done clearing, the barrager goes looting AGAIN. The double-sup ele takes the next quest (Defend) and the barrager gets trapped behind abyssals (that's where I go "lmao"). He tells us to help him get through that he'll help after, yada yada, but everyone has had enough, so no one goes to help. He rushes through the abyssals and dies 2ft away from the stairs. The WHOLE team starts to laugh.

He spent 5 minutes pinging "I'm dead!" and "res me! res me! ill help!!!". I start to respond to his pleas with "yeah well you were being greedy earlier, refusing to help people but you want help NOW? hah, I'm not resing you".

When Defend got done, he raged on the spot. Made my day.

And we go on. Now we're lacking a monk and barrager. But we think we'll do it anyways. First couple mobs on our way to spider cave goes fine... until the warrior, distracted, goes to aggro another mob while one's coming our way. The double-sup ele dies (duh) and so does half of our team - remains me and the SS necro. Duoble-sup ele goes "I'm not getting anything so I'm gonna go, bye"... and leaves.

So we have, in the same team: a monk who left for no reason - an overaggroing greedy ranger who can't work in a team - an ele who has no idea of health mechanics with a childish "OMFG IM NOT GETTING DROPS THIS SUCKS IM OUT" mentality...

Now THESE are bad players, IMHO.

TheRaven · Feb 22, 2008, 06:04 PM // 18:04

In my opinion, "bad player" can be defined 2 different ways.

1. Someone who is bad for the community and makes others not want to play the game.

2. Someone who has no talent for the game and can't improve.

The first category includes all the scammers and 14 year old windbags that you see in town. I really don't care how good you are at the game. If you spend most of your time in town harassing/scamming other players then you are a bad player.

The second category are those folks that just cannot seem to learn the mechanics of gameplay for whatever reason. They may be just too young to master the game or have some type of physical handicap that prevents them from playing well or it could just be an egotrip. Their bar is awesome against the level 5-6 Charr in Ruins of Surmia and Level 10 skeletons in Gates of Kryta so it should work fine in HA too. When it doesn't, it's obviously because the team monk sucks and the other team are using hacks!!!!

Any player that is unwilling to listen to advice and admit that he can improve is a bad player. The level 18 Necro in Thirsty River that is asking guildies to help him fix his Flare-Firestorm-Meteor-Vamp Gaze bar is not necessarily a bad player. If he's willing to listen to advice and change his playing style, he'll improve as he learns the game.

ShadowsRequiem · Feb 22, 2008, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Bad player? Type in Nameless Beauty and read some stuff they post.

-.-

TheRaven · Feb 22, 2008, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kusandaa

.........
So we have, in the same team: a monk who left for no reason - an overaggroing greedy ranger who can't work in a team - an ele who has no idea of health mechanics with a childish "OMFG IM NOT GETTING DROPS THIS SUCKS IM OUT" mentality...

Oooh, I don't know about that. I think that monk had plenty of good reasons to leave. He was the smart one.

Kusandaa · Feb 22, 2008, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRaven

Oooh, I don't know about that. I think that monk had plenty of good reasons to leave. He was the smart one.

If you have a valid reason of leaving, I won't mind it (stuff happens). However, I don't appreciate of party members when they leave without saying anything, and I've gotten very sour about such behavior. You're in a team, either stick with it or explain why you have to leave... or want to (I can understand crashes and such... as I was saying, stuff happens). Maybe if he/she had said "this group sucks, you have 2 awful players here who aren't doing anything well" I'd have understood. But I also was running with guildies and I won't rage until we decide to do so, together.

Esan · Feb 22, 2008, 06:24 PM // 18:24

A bad player is a player who cannot be taught to play better. Not to spawn another PvE/PvP debate, but most bad players in my definition tend to limit themselves to PvE or certain unchallenging PvP forms.

Rocky Raccoon · Feb 22, 2008, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rekiara Malevu

On a final note, good person does not necessarily mean good player, nor does bad person mean bad player. I have many friends who, while they are amazing people, are absolutely terrible at the game - and I've met stellar players who I couldn't bear to be around for more than 15 minutes.

A couple of additional questions. Would you rather play with an nice, friendly bad player or an arrogant good player? What if a player really tries to be good but still isn't should they be shunned in game?

HawkofStorms · Feb 22, 2008, 06:28 PM // 18:28

I agree with others from earlier in this thread. A bad player is someone who is obnoxious and doesn't bother to adapt.

Counterexample to Esan
A bad player? An example from a real story in RoF missions.

One who runs off litterally 4 compass maps away from the party and dies, and only then releases "hey where the hell are you guys?" Our answer, "we were all doing the bonus and telling you to stop running away." We eventually get to him, res him, and he procedes to spam his tiger, claim to be in a top 100 guild, and call us all noobs because we didn't run off and aggro 3 mobs by ourselfs.

Edit @Risky: The nice, friendly bad player in the long term. I'd more likely want to be friends with and have him in my guild. Because, if he really is trying, he will get better.

Snow Bunny · Feb 22, 2008, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trub

There are no 'good' players.

What about Last of Master or Tommy?

___________________________
[Insert User-made Signature Here]

Kusandaa · Feb 22, 2008, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

A couple of additional questions. Would you rather play with an nice, friendly bad player or an arrogant good player? What if a player really tries to be good but still isn't should they be shunned in game?

I'd play with the bad but friendly player. I'm a social guy, I can't help it. I've had awesome team experiences despite some failures with bad, yet nice players - they take advice and try their best, in general. Good atmosphere in groups usually equals a very good chance of completing your area, and less... sour failures if they happen. "Oh well, we tried our best with what we have".

With arrogant players, my experiences have been so-so. Too many arrogant, firey personalities where everyone doesn't communicate and such either ends in failure ("OMFG I was gonna aggro that group, why'd ya aggro that one?!??!!" "CUZ I AGGRO THIS ONE FIRST NOOB!") or victory, since they know what they're doing.

aapo · Feb 22, 2008, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleikki

There isnt such a thing like bad player in my opinion :d everyone just have own style :d

- Yes, there's no fat or poor people in the world. Everyone is equal. Is lying your "style"?

Taurucis · Feb 22, 2008, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRaven

Oooh, I don't know about that. I think that monk had plenty of good reasons to leave. He was the smart one.

Well, actually, the monk left before the Ranger started spazzing out/acting like a dumbass, I believe.

What's a bad player? The skills don't matter. Being new to the game doesn't make you bad. Having played for a year or so but not knowing all the mechanics of the game doesn't make you bad. I mean, whatever floats your boat, just continue having fun the way you want.

A bad player is one who knows what he/she's doing is wrong, detrimental, or stupid, and refuses to change. Like in the Kaanai Canyon map, the Kurzicks abusing the glitch said "there are no glitches in GW" "you cant cheat on GW" "it's not our fault the glitch is here" "lol stfu ur gettin pwned" and basically denied that they were exploiting a glitch to win. That is a bad player.

There's also the people who scam. Sure, some of it is the scammed's fault, whether they're just naive or stupid, but what about the people who leave right after they get the running service, or leechers? Those are bad players. They can't pull their load, so they leech. They're too spiteful to pay someone for his/her effort, so they rip the runner off.

By the way, I hate to say it but rude/immature people aren't bad players. They're bad people.

Olim Chill · Feb 22, 2008, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

A couple of additional questions. Would you rather play with an nice, friendly bad player or an arrogant good player? What if a player really tries to be good but still isn't should they be shunned in game?

In general, I'd rather play with a nice player who gives an honest effort. It's more satisfying when you accomplish things with someone you get along with.

Snow Bunny · Feb 22, 2008, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

arrogant good player

I'd play with him.

I'd rather win.

Rekiara Malevu · Feb 22, 2008, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

A couple of additional questions. Would you rather play with an nice, friendly bad player or an arrogant good player? What if a player really tries to be good but still isn't should they be shunned in game?

It's my opinion - and I try to practice this as often as possible - that people should only be 'shunned in game' for being rude, obnoxious, overbearing, arrogant and disrespectful. Given the choice, I'll play with people I like, regardless of their skill at the game. It is, after all, a game - we play to have fun, and I have a lot more fun playing with people who aren't arrogant pricks. Even wiping, losing matches, and general phail is fun when you do it with people you like. The great thing about Guild Wars, though, is that it's usually possible to succeed even with a bad player or too. Less so in PvP, but even there you'll occasionally draw teams that have more bad players than you do and get a win out of the deal.

In short, yes, I'll group with a "good person/bad player" before a "bad person/good player" any time.

Taurucis · Feb 22, 2008, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

I'd play with him.

I'd rather win.

Masochist.

I don't want to win to watch an arrogant skilled player say "LOL WE PRAWNED U N00000000BZ" - I'd rather lose and get a round of "gg" all around. Besides, it's easier to teach a good-natured newbie about the game, than it is to teach an arrogant skilled player how to be polite.

A polite newbie will probably end up on my friends list, and perhaps even in my guild. An arrogant skilled player will probably wind up on my ignore list, no matter how good he is at GW.

I know it can be frustrating teaching someone who doesn't understand GW how to play, but if he's patient and willing to learn, I don't have a problem. However, it is next to impossible to teach some punk online how to act like a civilized person.

Yichi · Feb 22, 2008, 07:03 PM // 19:03

theres a few of them that have posted in this thread...

but moriz basically hit the nail on the head.

romeus petrus · Feb 22, 2008, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Good and bad are both relative terms. No clear definition of either in GW.